Need help on choosing tires!

[RiceFarmer]

I need to replace my tires in the near future, I'd like to go with a 285 70 R17 a slight step up from my 265 70R17's.

I currently run BFG T/A KO's, they've been awesome! Decent in the winter, good for trailriding and not bad for overall roadnoise which I don't really mind at all.

I am torn between replacing them with another set of BFG's, or otherwise I've been toying the idea of the Toyo Open Country MT's. Are MT's better to have overall for wheeling? What do you guys prefer? Why do you guys choose M/T's over A/T's. I personally like the look of M/T's because it makes the Runner' look aggressive and wanting to claw up an animal.

Your opinions and suggestions please!

[Krazie Sj]

Is it your DD? Do you plan to drive it with the same tires during the winter? Cause FYI MT+Ice on roads = Death.

That's why I'll probably never go with a full MT for my DD.

[Tarzan]

I second that MT in wniter are scary and down right dangerous. I run MT's all summer and then AT's in winter both BFG's and my Runner is not a DD. I have BFG AT's on my 03 Avalanche and am going to put on Pro Comp Xtreme AT's now that the BFG's are showing tread bars. The BFG's lasted three years about 75,000 km and worked very well but I wanted to try something different. The Avalanche does not off road at all(it also tows a 29' trailer every summer) but my wife like the more agressive appeance and the Pro comps are reviewed as great in the snow. Pro Comps are also on sale right now.

[Krazie Sj]

Pro Comps are also on sale right now.

Where at. Might be worth a look versus my Duratrac/BFG AT dilemma.

[Tarzan]

http://www.4wheelparts.com/images/products/PCT/xtreme_all_terrain.jpg
http://www.procomptires.com/

I am getting my tires thru work but I'm pretty sure you can get them at National and I have a buddy who runs a shop in the south that also sells them. North Shore Off Road has this ad (the sale is put on by Pro Comp thru all it's dealers). Modern Motors also carry these tires. http://www.nsor.com/featureditems/procomp-4-3-tires/
http://www.nsor.com/featureditems/procomp-4-3-tires/procomp-3-4-tires.jpg

[RedApe]

Interesting...Mud Terrains no good on snow/ice.

Ok, let's open this topic up a bit :p

I've run:
Swampers
Swamper SX's
BFG AT KO's
BFG Long Trail
Interco TRXUS MT
Dick Cepek Mud Country
Big O XTs
Yokohama Mud Diggers
GoodYear MT/R

To date, the best tire I've had on winter roads was the TRXUS MT, bar none. These currently reside on the wifes TJ, in a 33. We have approx 50K+ Kms on them...and will likely get another 10K before we replace.
Second would have been the Mud Diggers (now dicsontinued), and a close 3rd to the Dick Cepeks.

Swampers/SXs were tough...and I don't care what anyone says: bias ply SUK on the street. Hot, cold, warm, wet, rain, snow, ice, cherry pie, grape juice...it didn't matter. :)

The bad reputation of MT's in snow more than likely has it's roots in the BFG MT (pre KM2) tread pattern, and it's knock offs (Kumho, Contitrac, Bridgestone etc). Large lugs, directional, and no SIPING.

I think you'd find that an MT with a well designed lug and siping pattern, rain/slush channels etc will work very well on ice/snow/rain/sand/rock/moon.

Now...back to Victor:
Dood...go Simex!
http://www.simextyres.co.nz/imagegallery/extreme-triple.jpg
http://www.tonka-toy.co.uk/traka/40.jpg

[freeze]

Has anyone actually had Simex delivered in Canada at a reasonable price? Those would be stellar! I wish the maxxis creepy crawler was a decent price too... both bias though but.... ohhhhh what a tire!

The old Goodyear MT/R's were a little on the death side when it came to ice. Not fun.
I really like the MTZ's especially in the winter and ice, really good for a M/T in our climate. I'm over 70k KM on them and still have 1/4 of tread left.. not quite to the wear bars yet!

Like Keith said... sipping, decent space between outer lugs, inner lugs slightly closer for less road noise, good shoulder lugs for when you're aired down and a good amount of silica compound. No sipping = no ice traction.

You may want to look into what oriontaco and tent run: the Mickey Thompson ATZ. It's a really agressive all terrain that performs really well in both the snow/ice and off-road from what I've seen. They could probably give you first had experience. Lots of sipping and deep lugs with decent shoulder lugs.

https://www.cyberjeep.com/images/mickey-thompson-atz-310.jpg


I'm looking at the new Goodyear MT/R Kevlar as they have a nice tight center section with huge spacing between the outer lugs. It has decent sipping (not as much as the MTZ which i'm a little on the fence about), high silica compound, supposed to be quiet, and outer lugs are designed in a NASA lab for the best possible directional traction (i think they look horrible!)

http://www.thegallboys.com/Website%20Pics/Pics%20Low%20Res%20Goodyear/New%20MTRs.%20Pics%20Glen%20Gall.%20www.thegallboy s.com.jpghttp://www.thegallboys.com/Website%20Pics/Pics%20Low%20Res%20Goodyear/New%20MTRs.%20Pics%20Glen%20Gall.%20www.thegallboy s.com%20(9).jpg

The only tires I've had in the past were:

Canadian Tire All Terrains
Stampede A/T
BFG A/T
Goodyear MT/R
BFG Rugged Trail
Mickey Thompson MTZ

[Krazie Sj]

All I'm saying is that I've had M/Ts on ice and not a goddamn day went by that I didn't fishtail at least once. On one hill every time I went up it I had to accelerate 20 over the speed limit and coast up cause any, ANY throttle would break my back end loose. One time I even went into oncoming traffic and had to put it in the ditch to keep from kissing a semi front on.

Mud - Ice.

Two totally different surfaces for a tire to run on. You honestly cannot expect a tire designed for one, to be good for the other.

If you've had good luck with other M/Ts on ice, wicked. Props to you, myself, I cannot advocate M/Ts for winter unless it's for off road snow conditions.

:)

[canadian bum]

Just have to run the proper tire pressure. I went from a BFG M/T to a BFG A/T and didn't notice much of a difference on winter roads. I am going back to the M/T, A/T's suck on the trail. Good all around tire but our trucks don't wear mud tires like a fullsize truck does so no more A/T's for me. I run 25psi in the front and 20psi in the rear of my taco for highway driving. Just cause the side of the tire says 65psi max doesn't mean that is what you put in it.

[uriedog]

I have run BFG A/T's on all my trucks. Good highway winter tire. Not great in mud. But for lifespan they are great. I had a set on my old Z71 250,000km before they were worn out

Now the Surf has Super Swamper SSR's they are decent on the snow/ice better then BFG M/T. Lots of road noise though

http://www.intercotire.com/tires.php?id=9&g=1

[Winch]

I'm on my second set on Goodyear MT/R's because I liked the first set so much. Not sure what I will get next, because they discontinued them, but here are a few things to think when choosing a tire. With the MT/R's i found the following
- it's a fairly light tire (the 37" weighs 20lbs lighter that the Toyo MT's)
- very good tread life (I think you can easily get 50,000 km out of them - very good for an MT)
- Quiet
- Balance fairly well
- Good all around tire (only surface that it doesn't like is mud)

So, these might be some things to consider. I've been through 4 winters on the MT/R's, and have no issues driving them in winter because all I do as soon as I see snow or ice is to put it in 4WD. My mudterains in 4WD will outperform any snowtire in 2WD - period.

[Krazie Sj]

My mudterains in 4WD will outperform any snowtire in 2WD - period.

Call me an asshole, but I don't believe that for a second. Are you talking about in soft loose snow on a trail? Or a plowed Highway? Cause the former, sure M/Ts are wicked for loose snow on a trail, but plowed highway?

It could just be that you're a better driver than other people and nothing to do with the tires on the vehicle.

Just cause soccer mom drives a loaded Volvo with all the safety bells and whistles doesn't mean she isn't going to kill someone else with her erratic driving.

[freeze]

My mudterains in 4WD will outperform any snowtire in 2WD - period.

haha.... it is true. But I think there are some other parts of the truck and driver that make that statement true. :D

I have an 88 535i that is a little massaged and one year I put winter tires on and no matter how good those tires were.... I wasn't going anywhere when there was a little bit of ice and snow. A Quaife LSD in the rear with 220HP is not a good mixture for winter... maybe if I had ice racing studs... maybe.

[Winch]

Call me an asshole, but I don't believe that for a second. Are you talking about in soft loose snow on a trail? Or a plowed Highway? Cause the former, sure M/Ts are wicked for loose snow on a trail, but plowed highway?


Either. I bet you $100. Bring it on! OK, I suppose 37" tires makes a difference. :)

[RedApe]

LOL...can o' worms, eh?
To keep things civil, I'll concede that a good portion of the MT market are toast for winter driving (The older style 'generic' MT tread design).
The manu's that have broken the mold, have actually listened to what the public wants (enmasse, as well as the 4wd specialists communities), and who are constantly improving designs are really the ones that I'm refering to in my earlier posts.

Interco
Dick Cepek
ProComp
Mickey Thompson
Cooper
etc

...ah...I remember when 'innovation' in the MT market was the BRAND NEW MT/R. Because GY had broken the 'mold' from the traditional MT design technologies, the MT/R was labeled as an ALL TERRAIN by many magazines, e-zines etc.

[RiceFarmer]

Thanks for all of the replies and opinions.... I'll take some time to decide....

I'm leaning towards Goodyear MT/R Kevlar because the tread looks so badass, although Nathan I read in a magazine (four wheeler) I believe it didn't fair as good as the other tires. My rig wont be a mud queen so I think the Kevlars will be maybe list. I like the Toyo MTs as well. Those Simco's or whatever just look plain scary Redape, I get nightmares from those pics...

[Stuwy123]

I need some new tires before winter for sure, my cooper discoverer STT's are getting pretty bald.
I'm going up to 33" tire but I want to keep it to 10.5" wide because the 12.5" wide tends to destroy the IFS on my 93.
I've got my choices down the BFG A/T and the BFG KM2.
Lots of city driving, commuter DD. I still haven't really taken my truck out on the trail. I'm mostly concerned about the traction on the plowed ice on the street.
Should I wait before putting in the locker as well?

[canadian bum]

Lockers on ice are scary. I need new tires fairly soon and will be running the KM2's in the snow this winter.

[Krazie Sj]

Either. I bet you $100. Bring it on! OK, I suppose 37" tires makes a difference. :)

If I had $100 to spend right now, I'd be trying to throw it at Nathan for those Procomps. :P

And 37" does make a difference. Way more ground contact versus normal tires. But I still think most of it is driver competence and experience, which, let's face it, on an offroading forum, we have in spades.

[canadian bum]

Larger contact patch on ice is worse actually. If you have a skinny soft compound tire it will grip way better then a fat tire. M/T's really aren't that bad when run at the proper pressure to allow the lugs to flex and grip the ice. I'm talking from previous experience.

[RedApe]

Lockers on ice are scary. I need new tires fairly soon and will be running the KM2's in the snow this winter.
ROFL....what's not to like about a Detroit on the street in rain and snow?

<audio>
Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak------BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</audio>

[canadian bum]

ROFL....what's not to like about a Detroit on the street in rain and snow?

<audio>
Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak-Clak------BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</audio>

Woot power slide out of control time for some Fast and the Furious Canadian Drift

[RedApe]

Larger contact patch on ice is worse actually. If you have a skinny soft compound tire it will grip way better then a fat tire. M/T's really aren't that bad when run at the proper pressure to allow the lugs to flex and grip the ice. I'm talking from previous experience.

Totally agree...and in Gary's case the contact patch would be the same as a standard 33...both are a 12.50 (assuming 15" rim).

[freeze]

the MT/R was labeled as an ALL TERRAIN by many magazines, e-zines etc.

This was because the MT/R stood for Maximum Traction/Radial and not Mud Terrain. That why the old one was horrible in the mud which is fine for me because I'm not a fan of mud.

The new one is supposed to be really good in the mud but still have the same qualities as the old MT/R with more silica and sipping.

I purchased a set of MT/R's almost a month after they came out, I think that was back in 2001. They're still the same tires that are on my 81 and they've covered a lot of ground and trails and icy snow roads for B/C skiing.

From my perspective the Mickey Thompson MTZ's have been a leg up from the old MT/R in terms of all-round use. These tires have been used! From looking at the tread design, side lugs, and tire compound, I'm really intrigued by the new MT/R with Kevlar.

I've looked at almost every tire, touched them, read about them and for what I use my tires for.... it's either MTZ or MT/R.

Again... that's for what I use my tires for.... someone else would have a completely different requirement which would yield in a completely different tire choice.

It really boiled down to, Sipping, Side lugs, Tread depth/spacing, tire compound, Tread design (lateral traction as well as forward/backward traction) and Tire noise. I don't care much for brand name specific, it's more about the function.

[Krazie Sj]

Larger contact patch on ice is worse actually. If you have a skinny soft compound tire it will grip way better then a fat tire. M/T's really aren't that bad when run at the proper pressure to allow the lugs to flex and grip the ice. I'm talking from previous experience.

That's on snow not ice I thought. Cause you want more weight on a smaller surface area to push down through the snow. Where as with ice the more contact you have with it the greater the increase in friction?

[freeze]

In really soft snow/powder you want a super large contact patch. The way you'd get this is airing down your 12.5"+ wide tire to 3psi and you will float.

The width of the tire on ice really depends on the type of compound/sipping/tread patttern.

[Krazie Sj]

Ah, just like with sand.

That makes sense. Too used to running ice roads for the patch. And they have 3 different types of wheels on the work trucks so you're sol half the time for what tire on what surface you really want.