Not sure what I should do.

[gptoy]

I have 2 trains of thought going on right now about my truck and I'm sure the wisdom of you guys could help me decide on a smart/cheap way of going about it.

I bought an 05 TRD OR AC this fall, previous owner had cracked rear leafs and had a local shop repair/upgrade them. I don't know the technical details of my leaves now but I beleive they are hybrids. From what I found on searching forums I think I have about a 2" lift from factory.

So where I'm looking for advice is here. I don't like the raked look of the truck so I was thinking of two ways to fix this. Either 1. Replace the rear leaves with factory ones to bring the back down to factory height or 2. spacers up front to level it out.

Here's a bit of detail of how I use my truck to maybe help guide which way I should go. As much as I would like to wheel more it's been difficult to find others that are local that like to go so I only actually head out a couple of times a year (maybe I should move to Calgary to hang out more with you guys!). Nothing too extreme, just some trail riding mostly, no rock crawling or anything. Truck is a daily driver, rarely-if at all carry any heavy loads. One day I'd like to get a cap and set up the back for camping.

I know spacers aren't usually the best way to go, but for the amount of wheeling I actually go maybe be an ok option? The One thing that concerns me about lifting is driveline shudder. It's pretty pronounced as it is and from what I've researched it seems to appear to lifted trucks from the carrier bearing when lifted (perhaps my 2" "lift" being the culprit?). That was one of the postives in my mind about returning to stock and potentially fixing this. Thing I love about Toyotas is the long term reliability and lack of repairs, if lifting would potentially increase the amount of maintenance I need to do I might not like that option so much.

I'm mechanically interested but lacking experience/shop space/tools so I'll probably have to factor in labour time to either option for costs also.

So, bit of a long winded post but would appreciate some opinions and experience on what would be the smart way of going about this. Even though I don't get a chance to get out too many times, I'm hoping one of the trips from your area heads near mine and I could meet up with you all!

[Winch]

Hi. In my opinion a lifted truck is a total waste of time, money and energy unless it is being used for some wheeling. I know many people would lift a vehichle just for looks and not for off roading, but it doesn't sound as if you are one of them. The more you lift a truck, the higher the risk is of more maintenance and repairs. So in my opinion, based on what you said, I would recommend just dropping the back-end back to stock. Many Taco owners get rid of their stock rear suspension so you should be able to find this on the 4x4 forums, or else you could remove one or more of your leafs to drop it back down.

As far as the driveline shudder goes, the 2" lift you have is most likely not the culprit. My guess is that it's something else and if you can describe the vibration a bit, we may be able to come up with a few possibilities. Is it a fast whining vibration or more of a shudder? At any speed or only a specific speed? Does changing gears affect the vibration? Etc.

[gptoy]

That's pretty much my idea also, so many lifted trucks around here doing nothing but getting groceries. My Toyotas have always been plenty capable out of the box for the type of light wheeling I do so I was hesitant on lifting anything, especially since it may increase wear/tear on other parts. And like you said there are quite a few people that do lift so stock springs should be around, I'll just keep my eyes open for some. I'd definately wheel more with more people available. There is a local club but they're all driving lifted jeeps with exo-skeletons, winches, huge tires etc. and that's way more than what I want to get involved with. I don't have the time/money to build a rig like they have and unless you do you pretty much won't let you wheel with them.

I'm horrible at describing things, especially if I try to write the symptoms so bear with me! It's definately a shudder rather than a whining vibration. The shudder always happens at about 1000-1500 rpm just as I'm accelerating from a stop but sometimes in other gears if the rpms are in the same range and I go from coasting to accelerating. There's no sound associated with it, just a shudder felt through the truck. When I first got it I was thinking u-joints. While I was underneath replacing sway bar bushings I gave the driveshaft a push and noticed alot of play from the carrier bearing. Between the play and what I seen on other forums I figured that the change in height of the rear may have done it.

Hopefully that gave some sort of a description and didn't sound too confusing.

[Tacorossa]

The shudder you are describing can very well be caused by the added height of the rear and the new geometry of your driveline. The two piece drive shafts don't handle angle changes very well. Grab a few washers and drop your carrier bearing about 1/4" to see of that helps at all. Grease all the zerks while you're under there.

Both CityRider and BeachBoy have factory TSB leaf springs if I recall. May be worth a PM to one of those guys to see what their asking price is.

[gptoy]

Thanks Tacorossa, I hadn't thought of doing that but it makes sense. If I keep the lift I'll definately give it a try.

[freeze]

Also if you're deciding on a topper in the future, you may want to keep the rake as you may find the topper may compress your rear end to stock levels. My topper drops the rear end down about an inch.

[gptoy]

Also if you're deciding on a topper in the future, you may want to keep the rake as you may find the topper may compress your rear end to stock levels. My topper drops the rear end down about an inch.

I guess that's something to consider too. If I do get stock leafs maybe I'll keep my others so when I do get a topper I can put them back on then if it compresses too much.

Thanks for the input.

[Winch]

The shudder always happens at about 1000-1500 rpm just as I'm accelerating from a stop but sometimes in other gears if the rpms are in the same range and I go from coasting to accelerating.

Yeah, driveshafts (DS) spin 4.10 times faster than the wheels and therefore usually do not cause a shudder but rather a fast high-pitched vibration, however having the vibe in that phase between acceleration and deceleration is again a tell-tale sign of a DS issue (specifically an angle issue). As far as DS vibes go, there are usually 5 causes:
1. The DS is out of balance (knocked off weight, etc)
2. One or more U-joints are going out
3. Carier bearing going out or mounted upside down
4. Angle of the U-joint at the pinion is too high
5. Splines at the slipyolk are worn causing a wobble

So best would be to start by carefull checking out the U-joints and go from there. I ran a 2" lift on my truck for years and did not have a DS issue which is why I initially said that I doubt it would be that, but based on these symptoms, chances are the angle of the U-joint at the pinion is too high.

[gptoy]

Thanks for the help winch!

I'm a novice when it comes to mechanics, and my buddy that was with me was a heavy duty mechanic so it was a bit out of his specialty too but we're pretty sure the u-joints were ok (again, could be wrong). One thing I noticed is there is alot of play in the carrier bearing. The driveshaft seems really loose at that point when I pushed it up and down. Does this sound normal? Do the carrier bearings allow for the driveshaft to move quite a bit?

Either way, my first step will be the lowering and see how it affects it from there. I'm sure I'll be a rarity when I lower the rear rather than lifting the front!

Appreciate it!

[Winch]

Thanks for the help winch!

One thing I noticed is there is alot of play in the carrier bearing. The driveshaft seems really loose at that point when I pushed it up and down. Does this sound normal? Do the carrier bearings allow for the driveshaft to move quite a bit?

You're welcome.

I ran a carrier bearing for many years but never had any issues with it so I never checked it so I don't know how much play is normal. I do know however that there is supposed to be play in them and posts such as these also mentions that:
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139469&highlight=carrier+bearing+play

From my post above, most DS vibrations will either be constant or get progressively worse with speed. Cause #4 is your best bet for having a vibration at a certain RPM in that phase between acceleration and deceleration. It is because the pinion lifts up during acceleration and drops down during deceleration (as a result of normal, or sometimes excessive, axle wrap) and it affects the already bad angle of the U-joint even more. The pinion of the diff should be inline with the DS (plus/minus 2 degress) while driving.

[gptoy]

Thanks again winch!

My first step will be to find some springs and drop it, hopefully that fixes it. All this info. has been really helpful, appreciate it.

[Tacorossa]

There is some play in my carrier bearing as well. Not a lot, but I can move it a tiny bit with my hands. This is normal.

For some reason, the second gen Tacoma's do not handle angle changes in the two piece drive shaft very well. There are lots of documented cases of guys getting vibes after lifting their trucks even 1.75". Some people even noticed vibes in their driveline after getting the TSB leaf pack installed (this is just a replacement of the stock 3 leaf pack with a stronger 4 leaf pack if you aren't aware of what the leaf spring TSB is). The TSB leaf pack only lifts the rear end about an inch or slightly more in some cases. Some went to a one piece drive shaft such as Tom Woods which eliminated the vibrations. Others dropped the carrier bearing and achieved the same result. Do a search on ToyotaNation and fill yer boots!

I'm not saying that this is the problem you are having, but it sounds to be a potential reason.

Why don't you throw some weight in the bed of your truck to lower it down an inch or two for a quick check... see if that has an impact. I had some driveline vibrations after my lift. I dropped my carrier bearing a 1/4" and that seemed to solve the problem. I still get a shudder at takeoff, but I attribute that to axle wrap.

Gary is just a wealth of knowledge! If anyone can solve this it will be him.

[gptoy]

Thanks Tacorossa,

I thought I had seen it somewhere too regarding the vibrations so that's what started my suspicions, it's good to know I wasn't the only one. That's a good idea about weighing down the back and seeing what happens before I get too involved. I'll give that a try.

And if Gary is Winch (still trying to learn who's who) then from what I see I could definatley agree. He for sure has great knowledge and ideas. I'm sure I'll be hoping for more advice when I start seeing how to fix my timing cover leak next! I just hope that I can be as much help to others also, my knowledge isn't as deep but if there were people looking for an extra hand in my area for whatever I'm more than willing to help.

Thanks to everyone!

[Tacorossa]

Thanks Tacorossa,

And if Gary is Winch (still trying to learn who's who) then from what I see I could definatley agree. He for sure has great knowledge and ideas.

Yep. Gary = Winch. He's a bit of a Toyota guru if you couldn't tell... haha..

[Winch]

Yep. Gary = Winch. He's a bit of a Toyota guru if you couldn't tell... haha..

Ha ha, thanks, but no I don't think so. I just know certain topics and Tacoma vibrations is one of them :)